Specifically Marilyn Manson and Kanye West. Am I overthinking this?
I find it depends on how they get compensated.
It depends, mostly on yourself and how you feel about it. Most artists have shown some form of shitty behaviour - Dave Grohl cheated on his wife for example. Is that enough to stop listening to his music? Probably not. Kanye West released a song called “Heil Hitler”…is that enough? Probably, but does that also count for his older songs? You decide. No one else can.
Absolutely. With all forms of art, I feel this is an extension of the Death of the Author concept, in that you separate the art from the artist, and it has less to do with what the artist intended and more to do with your take and interpretation of something, good or bad, and it’s effect and meaning for you.
For example, due to my childhood and lots of past trauma, I harbor some deeply resentful and hateful feelings toward Christians and Christianity in general. However, there are some Christian rock and metal bands I have always loved, and a lot of their music doesn’t always scream religion at me. I appreciate and enjoy some of these still today, despite the fact they ultimately are representing something I detest. The way I enjoy it and what it means to me is different from what they intended.
I can’t, personally. Same with any art. Kanye can get fucked. Manson can get fucked. Pantera can get fucked. Neil Gaiman can get fucked.
Some are harder to walk away from than others though. Sandman and Death were two of the first comic book characters that I ever got to read complete stories of and not just random back issues. But I’ll never be able to look at another Gaiman creation again without thinking about everything.
Others are easier to leave behind. Bands like Pantera always came across as macho dickheads that beat up kids for listening to heavy metal back in school anyway. So I feel nothing saying nazi metalheads fuck off
What’s the problem with Pantera? I know almost nothing about them aside from an album plus a few singles
Phil Anselmo, singer of Pantera, in 2016:
And seeing that made me feel stupid for never picking up on the white power undertones in their music before. Honestly it’s made me feel something not good about a lot of metal bands in general since, considering that this very year, Metallica, Slayer and Pantera were still happily touring alongside each other as opening acts for Black Sabbath’s 20th final tour.
Thank you. That’s a shame. I was hoping it was one of the newer members of the band, but nope, he joined in the 80s.
Him and fans try to play it off as a joke, but it definitely means something when you keep making the same kinds of jokes and not changing after the first time people tell you it’s terrible
I’ve never felt guilty for consuming media of people who have done bad things; it’s not that it’s not important to have integrity, I just assume everyone I could consume media from has and does, and the difference is that I’ll either never know, or don’t know yet.
We can’t just throw away historical and culturally significant works because the creator(s) are terrible, in part because broken, complicated, terrible people make these works because that’s where the creative energy is.
If they get even a cent from you, then you are funding their crap. Also whatever you don’t like about them will certainly be part of their art. If that doesn’t bother you, then sure, enjoy what you want.
Explain Manson pls
I don’t think so. You’re always going to remember. You can be good at pushing it down. But it’s always going to be in the back of your mind. Just depends how skilled you are at ignoring that part of your mind really.
I’m sorry I should read more English literature, but I’m a bit in a hurry right now.
- You shouldn’t feel guilty if you haven’t given them a cent since they’ve been exposed as Nazis (and as a rapist in Monson’s case), and if you haven’t listened to any new release, i.e. if you don’t contribute to their careers now. You may have done this in the past, even by normalizing them, but that’s all you can do right now, and at the same time the bare minimum.
- Should you feel allowed to get emotional on a Nazi’s music? Cold rationality may make us stray away from humanity when we touch this topic, honestly; I’m all for rationally discussing Nazism, but ambivalent people really need to understand that a Nazi is de facto a monster first, and that they’d be so much more useful dead than alive that it outweighs the usual considerations on their dignity as a human being. Now, yes, if it helped you keep pushing back then, if you don’t fund their careers and if you don’t listen to new releases.
- As a reminder, you may self-host a private tracker on an old computer that won’t boot Windows 10 for you and your friends, complimented by a Jellyseerr/Sonarr/Readarr setup. Anyone with a bit on experience in piracy has a few high-quality discographies, so maybe one of your friends has downloaded their discographies on TPB back when they were “controversial”.
- As a semi-related reminder, the IRC protocol is designed for asking questions. Linux distributions (and other standard operating systems) have the best compatibility; interestingly enough the protocol has kept one third of its user base since its peak, and the Undertale’s Undernet is actually the name of one of its oldest servers. You’re probably gonna need help with your first server so feel free to come around and ask questions.
Sure. Just don’t pay. I listen to some very questionable or morally disgusting songs because I like the music. And I personally never care for the author’s life story. I don’t ask who builds my car either.
What’s wrong with Marilyn Manson that wasn’t 20 years ago?
Yes. It would be necessary to live a modern life, given almost everything we use/eat comes from some unethical source. We abstain from the things that are important to us, according to our values. Lyrically if a song does not itself promote [terrible thing] then the music can be separated from an artist that does.
However if it is important to you that your listening does not generate income for those people, don’t listen to their music in apps (eg Spotify, who pays based on plays), nor on their official YT channels (which are likely monetised).
Also, be mindful that playing/listening to it around others is a form of ‘conspicuous consumption’, one of many ways our actions become ‘Word of Mouth’ advertising. This may lead others to believe you support the artists specifically, and depending on their values, they may be derisive or hostile. (Or, they agree with [terrible thing] and believe you are alike.)
Of course, just don’t give them money. Unless you’re listening to the musical equivalent of “The Eternal Jew”/“American Sniper”, in which the content was not only made by hateful, possibly hellbound people but is also actively trying to morph your ideology to be more like theirs, what’s the danger?
That’s how I view it too. If you can consume something without financing further harm then the author doesn’t matter. Already own a Niel Gaiman book? Feel free to keep reading it. Pirated some metal music from a band that turned out to be neo-nazis? Go for it. Want to read Lovecraft? He’s long dead and his estate doesn’t seem to be supporting racism, so buy as much as you want. Want to check out Mein Kampf from the library? I will have questions when you return it, but you aren’t hurting anyone by reading it. Just understand the mindset that made them bad people and don’t let them sway your outlook to match.
My mom got me a copy of Mein Kampf when I was little (I asked, I was curious about what this Hitler guy used to yap about) and she never even questioned it, lol. She really had faith in little ol’ me. 😅
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Do a hecking piracy. Problem solved.
Ripping stuff from YouTube for personal use isn’t even illegal.
